[CLIENT INTERVIEW] DeAndra's Story: How to Advocate for Yourself and Get the Dream Job

In this interview you’ll learn:

• Why checking every box and doing your best work don’t lead to a promotion

• The power of asking the right questions to shift your perspective

• The lightbulb moment that got DeAndra to say out loud what she’d never say out loud before coaching

• How DeAndra created clarity in her career and secured her dream job with a salary bump

As an executive coach, I help smart, high-achieving women like you get bolder, braver, and better paid.

My 6 month, 1:1 coaching program is the answer to your personalized solutions so you can achieve your career goals with greater confidence and ease.

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Start of Transcript

Jamie Lee:

Hello everyone, my name is Jamie Lee. I'm an executive coach, I help smart women who hate office politics get promoted and better paid, without throwing anyone under the bus. I am interviewing some of my best clients, and I'm joined by DeAndra today, who works as Healthcare Compliance Officer at Johnson and Johnson. And I think her story is so inspiring and powerful, because she really embodies the power and the impact of learning and implementing self-advocacy, what can happen, how your career can transform overnight when you choose to advocate for yourself. She ran a mile with the skills that I taught her, she went and got herself a dream job. And so, I want to introduce DeAndra to you. DeAndra, where are you joining us from?

DeAndra:

I am in Yardley, Pennsylvania right now. In my home office.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah, love it. Okay. So would you share with us, what was the problem that you were encountering in your career, that you were struggling with before coaching?

DeAndra:

Okay, I love this question. I was thinking about it and I think it definitely was, I didn't advocate for myself at all. Right. So, but it would get to the point where I would just become so frustrated and even like resentful. I want to say resentful because I felt like if I just do my best work, someone's going to notice. They're going to notice, they're going to say, "Oh, good job," and I'm going to get that promotion, I'm going to get those opportunities. And so when that didn't happen, that caused a certain sense of bitterness. A sense of bitterness, because I thought that those were the steps to take. Pre-coaching, I said, "Okay, if I do this, this is what we're taught to do. Check every box, them at the end, I should get the prize at the end."

DeAndra:

And then that didn't happen, and then that kind of threw me for a loop. And I said, "Okay, I need to regroup. I need to out what I'm going to do now, and try to take an alternative route." Because I think I failed miserably the first time, trying to navigate it on my own, and I think I went about it the wrong way.

Jamie Lee:

And it totally makes sense that for so many of us smart women, we believe that, hey, it should work the way it worked in school. Just keep our heads down, do good work, wait to get a good grade, wait to get noticed. So, how did it feel as you tried to solve this problem? Was it frustrating? Was it stressful? You mentioned resentful.

DeAndra:

Yeah. You know what? It was frustrating to the point where I just almost gave up. I gave in, and said, "Fine, you know what? I should be happy. I'm paid decently, I have a pretty comfortable job, I like my coworkers for the most part. I'll just deal with this. I'm not happy with it, but I'll just deal with it. I'm getting a paycheck. I need to pay my bills." It was almost like complacency, so to speak, just like, "All right. It is what it is. Let me just deal with it." That's the point I was at prior to exploring coaching. Yeah.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah, sort of this settling, and as you said, complacent with not growing in your career. Yeah, okay. So, how was coaching with me different as a solution to this problem for you?

DeAndra:

You know what? I think coaching with you was different because you challenged my thoughts. Because I have a very strong personality, and I have a very definitive in what I think. I think that I'm right a lot of the times, sometimes I'm wrong. But I do like when people can give me another point of view, and I think that's what you brought to me. You'd always phrase everything, you're just asking questions. You're like, "Well, what if this?" Or, "What if you said this?" So, I like it that you didn't just tell me what to do. You didn't give me an answer per se, you let my own thoughts guide me through the process until we got to a certain point. And I was like, "Oh, well I guess I knew that answer." But I didn't ask myself the right questions.

DeAndra:

And I think that's what I get from working with you, is that you give me alternate ways to think of things. And looking at it even from the employer's point of view, or a coworker's point of view, I get to see different aspects that in my own mind, I can't see for myself. So, I only see my point of view, and then that frames all of my thoughts. So that's definitely what I appreciate about coaching.

Jamie Lee:

I love that. And I appreciate how you mentioned, you have this perspective inside of you, but it's just through coaching we get to unearth it, uncover it and explore many different perspectives that can help you get the result that you want. And so, what was the moment when you realized it was working for you?

DeAndra:

Oh, okay. So, when I realized, it was like that light bulb, aha moment. I was at my previous employer, and we talked about self-advocacy and I was just like, "Ah, I don't want to do that. I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I don't want to do anything." But I remember in a meeting, I specifically asked for what I wanted, things that I only say to myself. I said, "No, I want to be put on this project," or, "I want more opportunities," things that I would never, ever say, I would probably be mortified to say out loud, I started saying.

DeAndra:

And I was surprised with myself, but I think I had gotten to a point where, okay, what you were doing so far, wasn't quite working out the way you want it to, so try something different. So, I think that once I actually started verbalizing what was in my head all this time, to people who could make a difference, I said, "Okay, I think this coaching is working for me." Because I would never do that before, honestly. I would have kind of just dealt with it, I think.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. And was it still mortifying when you asked for those additional opportunities?

DeAndra:

No, you know what? It wasn't mortifying, but I think it was just uncomfortable because it wasn't something that I was used to doing. But the more I did it, the more confident I became. Because I said, "All right, you did it once," and then I did it again, and then I did it again. So, I think I just had to keep practicing that. But I didn't want to let my fear stop me from speaking up, because I think that's what happened all those prior years. So, I knew the alternative, so I said, "Okay, I'll go back to my old ways if I don't start speaking up."

DeAndra:

And we were talking about it and you're like, "Well, what's the worst that could happen? They can say no, then you can have your answer. You don't have to speculate, they'll have given you the answer, and then you can make other decisions." And I said, "You know what? You're right. The worst thing they can say is no, or not at this time," so I decided to do it. So honestly, I think that was the main aha moment for me, when I finally figured like, okay, I can do this. I think I'm really making some progress.

Jamie Lee:

Love it. And tell us about the moment when you realized, "Hey, if I can do this, I can go for my dream job."

DeAndra:

Yeah. I think I always was, kind of resigned myself to the fact that, all right, this job, I'm going to have to stay in this job even though I'm not necessarily happy. And then when we were going through the coaching, I said, okay. I learned to speak up for myself, and ask for certain things. And then I said, "Well, what's stopping me here?" I said, "I know, I have a list. I know what type of job I want. I know what company I even want to work for." I said, but I just didn't do it. I just figured, people tell you, "Just be happy. Don't get greedy, stay at the job that you're at, everything's fine there." And plenty of people told me that.

DeAndra:

But I think that just having that extra push of confidence, from taking the steps that I did make, that pushed me to just say, "Okay, why not now? You know what you want, just go get it." That's part of the whole process here, I said, "What are you even doing if you're not going to go for exactly what you want?" So, that's what kind of prompted me to just say, "You know what? I got my answers that I needed to get from my employer. I had the conversations that I needed to have, and then I got clarity." And that's what I was missing, I was missing the clarity part. I was filling in the blanks with answers. And I said, "No, I need them to answer certain things." And then once they did, which wasn't necessarily a bad thing, it just gave me the answers that I needed, to go forward with the plan that I had.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. And what was the compelling reason that you went for what you wanted, even when it was uncomfortable for you?

DeAndra:

You know what? It was because... What was the compelling, I think it was because I deserve it. I deserve it, I worked for it. It was a goal that I set for myself. I'm a very goal oriented person, so I write down what I want for my career, what I want for my life. And it's just, there's power in writing those things down, and I've noticed that. And so, I'm a go getter, that's who I am. And I just say, "You know what? You waited too long. You're not getting any younger, let's just take those steps." And so, I just figured now's the time.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. It's so powerful when you went from, "I'm not going to be able to change my situation," to, "No, now is the time to take action. Because I want it, and I deserve it and I can do it."

DeAndra:

Yeah. And I already had the ball rolling, so I figured I had the momentum going, why stop now? Because I had already taken some of the other steps, so I felt like I was on a roll. So I said, "All right, let's just keep going. Keep checking off things down the list of things that I want to do."

Jamie Lee:

Yeah, and what was it like negotiating the job offer?

DeAndra:

You know what? That was something that would make me be like a deer in the headlights in any other circumstance. I never wanted to negotiate, I never even wanted to approach it. But I think once I realized that it's a conversation, it's just a conversation, let's talk about it. And obviously I did my research, so I knew what we were looking at. And I said, I knew that deep down I wouldn't be happy with myself. I would have an instant bad feeling coming into a new position, and that's not what you want at all right. You want to be happy, and full of energy, and full of ideas coming into a new company. So, I knew that if I didn't negotiate and advocate for myself, I knew how I would feel, because I felt that way previous times with other employers.

DeAndra:

And what we're doing now, we're doing different things. We're not falling back into old habits. So, that was something I made it a point to do. And yes, it did feel uncomfortable, but I practiced it. I practiced the speech a couple of different times, or different scenarios. So, I think it just comes down to you having a certain sense of comfort. You may not be 100% comfortable, and you don't have to be to do it. You can still do it, and still feel slightly uncomfortable.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah. And what I really love about what you just said, is how you thought about your future self. "What is the experience that I want to set myself up for in the future? Do I want to set myself up for feeling excited and engaged, or do I want to set myself up for feeling disappointed, maybe even resentful that I didn't advocate, that I didn't negotiate?" So, you chose something that served you in the future, or now is in your past, but this is how you were able to create the courage to ask for what you want, and get it.

DeAndra:

Exactly. No, definitely. That's exactly the way I was looking at that. Because for something like my dream job, that I called it, it was something that I knew that type of feelings I wanted to have coming into it. And I knew I wouldn't have those feelings if I didn't check off every box that I had, in terms of things that I want, things that I require. I knew I had to just put it out there, because I knew I wouldn't feel 100% like, "Yeah, I'm game, I'm ready, let's go. Let's hit the ground running in this position," if I didn't do that. And I didn't want to diminish me getting that job in any kind of way, because it was a job that I definitely wanted for years, and I wanted to go into it with the best possible attitude.

Jamie Lee:

Right. And also, let's not forget that this is a very important job given where we are in the current... This is March, 2021, where we are in the pandemic, and the role your current employer is having on producing vaccines for us. It's very important not just for you, for your happiness, but for the benefit of society. That's not diminishing or [inaudible 00:13:10] anything, this is really real.

DeAndra:

Right. No, it's very important, pretty high profile position. A lot of different things go into it, a lot of different things I have to navigate, and so I wanted to definitely be on my A game. That was my goal coming in is to... Wanted to be that person I was in the interview. Because I was excited, I was engaged, I was all on board for everything. And I wanted to continue to be that person, because that was genuine, that wasn't just to get a job. That was how I genuinely felt about the company, and the position, which I still do. So, that's why I wanted to frame that and come into it with the right mindset.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah, love it. Okay, so how is your career different now? You've kind of given us a picture already, but now that you have spoken up for yourself, advocated, negotiated for yourself, what's different now?

DeAndra:

You know what? What's different now is that I can't even go back to who I was if I tried. It's kind of like when you open up Pandora's box. It's because I'm a different person now. I require different things, I speak up for myself, I ask questions when I don't know the answers and I don't necessarily feel any kind of shame or anything around that. These are things that plagued me for years, things that held me back. And now that I've learned better ways to handle situations, that would just be moving backwards, and I'm all about progress. So I would never, ever, I don't think I could even go back to that person, because I've learned so much and I've changed so much, that it just wouldn't even feel natural to me to be that person again.

DeAndra:

That's funny to say, because it hasn't been so long, but I've changed in that period of time so much, that it's almost like, well, I don't recognize her anymore. I'm a different person now. We're a whole different person, we approach things differently. And I think one thing I really, really thought about, was every time when I would do certain things, I would feel uncomfortable, and then I would stop. I would stop, and I would say, "Well, I'm feeling uncomfortable, so that must mean I need to stop. Maybe I shouldn't do X, Y, Z activity because I'm uncomfortable." And then working with you, we kind of worked through that it was, no, just because you're uncomfortable doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. Quite the opposite, it can mean you're doing something right. There could be that growth opportunity there for you.

DeAndra:

And that was like another light bulb for me. I was like, you know what? I thought of that in the total negative way. I never thought of it in a positive way, that maybe your mind is just saying, "Okay, this is a little uncharted territory for us. We've never really done this," but that doesn't mean you can't do it and you shouldn't do it. So in those instances now, I will recognize, okay, yes, I'm uncomfortable. I probably don't even really want to do this. However, in that instance there's still an opportunity there, for me to grow in some kind of way. And I'll still do it, I'll do it in spite of how I feel.

Jamie Lee:

Love that, because that really is the call of leadership, doing brave new things. Do you have any advice for people, women who may be watching this, and there's going to be women of color too, who watch this. And they're thinking, "Yeah, but I'm in the problem phase right now. I'm struggling to advocate, I'm struggling to speak up for myself. I know I can be a leader, I know I have potential for more, but I'm feeling kind of stuck." What would be your word of advice?

DeAndra:

Well, my advice to that, I think start at the most basic level. So for me, what I did, identify what's important to you. I love lists, so my top five things that were important to me in my life and my career. And they intersect, so they kind of go together. And so, once I figured out what those are, essentially my top five would be my core values, my deal breakers. And once I identified that, I think that it was easier for me to even think forward and go along with the process, in terms of new employment or employers or anything like that, you just have to identify what's important to you first. So, it's more about self-awareness. And I think that some people may overlook that step sometimes, or may circle back to that a little bit later, but I think you should actually start with that. Once you figure out what's important to you and what's not important to you, I think that's pretty much half the battle right there. You just got to identify that.

Jamie Lee:

Yeah, a hundred percent. Because then when you know what's most important to you, then you know what decisions to make, what actions to take, and everything flows from that. So, I love this tactical, actionable advice that you're sharing. Thank you so much, DeAndra. I appreciate you. Not everyone takes the coaching and just runs a mile with it. Not everyone takes it in, and opens their mind to really shifting who they are and what they do, to create more impact, not just for themselves, but for their family, for the rest of us. So, thank you for being an example of what is possible. Your story is amazing, and I appreciate you.

DeAndra:

Thank you, Jamie. I appreciate that.

Jamie Lee:

All right. Have a great one.

DeAndra:

Thank you.